Minutes, Plebeian Assembly, 24 March 2019 held at The Rostra.
Present: Tribune Lead Ras Parthicus, Tribunes Popov, Ruggeris Britannicus, Markus Parthicus-Vindelici and Asharr Furius Panius, Senator Janu Shimada Vindelici, ProConsul Agrippa Furius Wassep, Flamen Gaius Quinctius Flamininus, Flamen Ptolemy Furius Falco, HELIOS of Dacia, Ixion Parthicus Ἰξίων Παρθίκος
NOTE 1: These minutes are a record of reports, proposals submitted and additional items raised from the floor. Because of the nature of the proposals, comments from attendees have been included either directly in the minutes or in the addendum so as to shed more light on the issues.
NOTE 2: During the meeting, in relation to items from the 2018 Tribunate that were being voted on for continuance or not , the chair proposed the motion for Tribunes to vote on.
NOTE 3: Because of lag problems, local chat can often appear disjointed, especially with a number of people trying to talk at once, with comments appearing later in relation to matters already handled.
MEETING OPENED 10.07 am by Tribune Lead.
Tribune Lead Report
Welcome to this first Plebeian Assembly meeting for the 2019 Tribunate.
I am Ras Parthicus, Tribune Lead, and I will chair the meeting with my fellow Tribunes Ruggeris Britannicus, Popov, Markus Parthicus-Vindelici and Asharr Furius Panius. We will vote on any issues raised in the Assembly.
You are welcome to express your thoughts on the issues arising. To do so please say HAND and when recognised by the chair say what you have to say and when finished with your comments say DONE.
All issues requiring submission to the Senate are voted on at the Plebeian Assembly. (The Private meetings deal with in house Tribunate matters.)
The following items were unresolved from the 2018 Tribunate submissions. I will put them to the vote at this Plebeian Assembly as to whether we shall still pursue them.
- Submission re: Urban Design (removal of trees)
- Building Assistance in Time of Calamities
- Proposal that the free Romanum clothing in the Welcome pack in the Visitor Centre be upgraded
- Proposal to widen the Romanum streets and roads allowing chariots.
- Servi/Slaves
The Senate did discuss some of the above matters at their last Senators Only meeting prior to the Open Senate Meeting. I have yet to be advised of the outcomes of their discussions.
The matter concerning the Servi/Slave policy remains with the Emperor but I will raise it at this Plebeian Meeting to gather any more views. DONE
Flamen Gaius Quinctius Flamininus lead a Prayer to the Gods : Ceres, protector of laws and goddess of the Tribunes, watch over these men so that they may carry out their duty and live with dignitas and auctoritas.
Ita Est
Tribune Lead called on Tribune Ruggeris to provide the latest news on the New Welcome Centre
Tribune Britannicus: The Welcome Centre Mock-up is now in the final stages of completion, awaiting only a few more portraits.
At a date of Caesar's pleasure, it will be taken down to replace the old WC and its contents. The WC may be closed for a short while this, and the alteration to the door takes place. We hope to make this as short a moment as possible, which is why it was first assembled in the mock-up as far as possible.
It is hoped that, apart from Imperial and Operational items, the individual posters etc. will remain in the Welcome Centre Group, so that each stakeholder in any particular group or item will be able to continually update their own information, as indicated by His Highness at the last Senate meeting, if I have understood Him correctly.
The WC is a community asset and the completion of this stage is just the beginning. It needs to be nurtured and fed as our crops on a farm if it is to bear harvest, and my hope is it will grow and flower as they do.
As always I pay fulsome tribute to all those who have collaborated time and talent to bring us to this stage: Ras, Ed Ballinger, Popov, all the models for the portraits, the owners of the various posters and of course Great Stephanus himself, may he live for ever. DONE
The Tribune Lead advised that the next item related to the proposals from the 2018 Tribunate that were not completed at the time of that bodies closure. What was needed, was to decide if these items were to continue or not.
The outstanding items were listed together with the note about the Senate
[2019/03/24 10:23] Ras Parthicus: - Submission re: Urban Design (removal of trees)
- Building Assistance in Time of Calamities
- Proposal that the free Romanum clothing in the Welcome pack in the Visitor Centre be upgraded
- Proposal to widen the Romanum streets and roads allowing chariots.
- Servi/Slaves
Note: The Senate did discuss some of the above matters at their last Senators Only meeting prior to the Open Senate Meeting. I have yet to be advised of the outcomes of their discussions.
Tribune Lead - The motion is that the proposal in relation to trees be continued with
Motion Carried: For 3 Against 0
Tribune Lead - The Motion is that the Propoal in relation to Building Assistance in time of Calamities be continued with
Motion Lost : For 0 Against 5
Tribune Lead - The Motion is that the Proposal in relation to roads be continued with
Motion Lost: For 0 Against 4
Tribune Lead said he would move to the proposal in relation to the Servi/Slave Policy - stating that the question is that we continue to press this matter
As Senator Janu Shimada Vindelici had to leave the meeting early, Tribune Popov raised a question on his behalf: "Back in October, a number of us gave up an hour or so, to discuss how we might deal with slavery. I raised this at Senate in January, as there seemed to be no progress. We are now in March, 6 months, with no action.Can I ask who is taking responsibility for this, and if anyone knows when it might progress?"
Tribune Asharr commented - "I would be willing to host a discussion on the policy in April and I want resolution by May so it is sorted once and for all. When I originally came to Romanum there was no issue, now there are competing factions. This will stop. I would wish the consuls and emperor at the meeting"
Tribune Lead commented - "The issue is not one that individuals can decide - the matter has been with the Emperor for some time - and the last indication was that he was looking at a proposed policy put to him by Mardrakus the Slaver. The idea of raising it at this meeting was to see if there is anything further to add to what was already submitted to that conference."
Tribune Ruggeris asked a question of Tribune Asharr - "May I ask what these competing factions you mention, are, Asharr?"
Tribune Asharr responded-"So far from what I see the city has a slaver, Bacchus has slaves, houses have slaves, in the past there have been others who want to train and sell slaves. So each faction has its own ideas and motives. Each wants accommodation."
Tribune Ruggeris commented - "Yes, that's pretty much exactly what we were attempting to address at the conference that Janu speaks of, in October unfortunately the Emperor decreed the whole issue be delayed until the new year. I believe we might all request the issue be reopened in some form, to at least try again. Better if the Tribune does it as a whole, I think personally."
Tribune Lead commented: "The Tribunate did put the proposal that a small group be set up to advise him [Emperor] on the policy and if revision was required, but as Rugger said it has been delayed."
Tribune Lead- then asked "is it the wish of the Assembly that the Tribunate follow up the Servi/Slave policy matter with vigour?"
Motion Carried For 4 Against 0
Tribune Lead: The following proposal is with the Consuls so the Senate tells me "Proposal that the free Romanum clothing in the Welcome pack in the Visitor Centre be upgraded to a more stylish yet simple garment in tune with 2nd Century fashions. " I will follow up on that - also knowing that a senator has offered to help fund an improved style.
Comments
Tribune Ruggeris - "The Emperor said directly that while he feels the clothing is adequate for the moment, he doesn't rule out it being replaced if a suitable person could be found to make it. I don't know on the other hand what the Consuls said about this at their meeting. "
Tribune Lead- "Neither do I but I assume the Emperor would acquiesce if some one was prepared to assist in updating it."
Tribune Asharr advised the following address for a full permissions Toga - https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/TogaFullPerm/14937446
Tribune Lead - "Unless anyone has any more to say about that I will follow up on whether a decision has been made - bearing in mind that there are items already available on the market place."
Note that Ptolemy Furius Falco made reference to a new outfit made and passed to the noble Consul Rad. He was not sure if it was for just Pompeii? Proconsul Agrippa indicated yes."
HELIOS of Dacia: " Stands and bows to the honoured meeting attendees. I must leave for other matters upon my other estates I wish to thank this body of distinguished gentlemen for allowing me to attend this meeting"
Tribune Lead " you are welcome Helios - after all, it is the Plebeian Assembly"
Tribune Lead called for any items from the floor
Gaius Quinctius Flamininus asked the question - "With a new welcome centre, who will be guiding people into roles here? Perhaps there can be a committee? Also could there be a request made to have the rp committees give a report on activities?"
Tribune Lead - "I believe one of our Tribunes has made that request at the last meeting re the rp committee."
Tribune Ruggeris - "That would be a question for Zarek."
Tribune Lead - " We can make enquiries but it is a committee that reports to the Senate."
Gaius Quinctius Flamininus - "The issue being for new people, which the welcome centre is designed for, saying talk to ____ this is a question for _____ makes you feel like a rubber ball being thrown about. Perhaps the elective officials can form some structure to the process?"
Tribune Ruggeris responded - "Yes I understand how frustrating and annoying it can be. There is so much to explain and its difficult to take a newcomer by the hand and try to fill them in on everything. I will do my best in the new WC but it has limitations of space and info overload. But in the case of RP, Zarek is the head of RP and only he can really issue reports, which I agree is a good idea. We could ask the Tribunate to request he does so if you wish?"
Gaius Quinctius Flamininus - "My nephew has applied for a temple position, As with me there is little structure, little communication, little process. This is not a question of taking people by the hand but having a clear path and clear communications. Structure, versus going round and round. Nothing has been posted in rp for two months? There has to be some accountability and process. Requesting reports help with the communication and is one step."
Comments from the Floor
ProConsul Agrippa - "My brother Asharr has already put this exact issue before the Senate, at the last Senate meeting. If im not mistaken."
Tribune Lead - "that is what I was adverting to"
Tribune Asharr -" I did and it should be in the Senate notes."
Tribune Lead -" In relation to the Welcome Centre there is still work to be done - The ideal is to have the place manned, but we do not live in an ideal world but the matter can be pursued and if volunteers are available may be we go for it."
Tribune Asharr - " but also remember that any citizen can create and start an rp without needing the approval of the rp committee."
Tribune Ruggeris- " It sounds a little if as well as a slave path, we need a priest path."
The Tribune Lead thanked all for their attendance, forbearance and involvement in the meeting and adjourned it at 11.57am
ADDENDUM - COMMENTS IN RELATION TO DEBATE ON WHETHER CERTAIN PROPOSALS FROM 2018 ARE TO BE CONTINUED WITH OR NOT
Tribune Lead: Just some prior comment - The trees are still standing and the road between Romanum and Pompeii is hard to navigate round corners and stairs - for a chariot
Tribune Lead: If I remember the first item drew attention to the fact that it was the emperors prerogative to take action if he wanted to - in relation to the trees
Tribune Popov: related to the trees - although I am against cutting trees down - I noticed that isn't it the new Romanum sim where all the new accommodations are - trees have grown like mushrooms - and it is very confusing
Tribune Ruggeris: I counted 46 trees there
Tribune Popov: gosh, as many
Tribune Ruggeris: each of which is something like 8 prims, reducing them might help the lag in the hippodrome a little
Tribune Popov: personally, I don't think those trees are necessary
Tribune Lead: some vital points there would indicate a willingness for the matter to be continued to be resolved
HELIOS of Dacia: as concerning the trees and chariots does the trees and their placement not allow for a speed limit to be there so as the populace is safe to walk the roads without fear of being run over by the chariots
HELIOS of Dacia: maybe a speed block would be less prims in the place of the trees
Senator Janu Shimada Vindelici: How many chariot users have complained?
Tribune Lead: in relation to the trees - we will deal with them first - the chariots are another issue
Tribune Lead: I intend trying to put these items to a vote else we be here all day and night
Tribune Popov: /me doesn't remember seeing many chariots around
Tribune Lead: I note that Tribune Markus has been whisked away by the Gods
Tribune Asharr: against removal of trees unless their fuggly
Tribune Ruggeris: (To clarify this refers to the cypress trees along various paths, rather than trees in general)
ProConsul Agrippa Furius Wassep: so I would like to say that widening roads for chariots that will barely if ever be ridden on the streets is a crazy thing to do.
ProConsul Agrippa Furius Wassep: people barely want to ride horses anymore due to the lag.
Tribune Lead: Before I call on Ixion - the issue is in relation to the Cypress trees along various paths
Ixion Parthicus Ἰξίων Παρθίκος: I am the proposer of the tree motion
Ixion Parthicus Ἰξίων Παρθίκος: it has nothing to do with chariots or road widening
Ixion Parthicus Ἰξίων Παρθίκος: I purely moved from an aesthetic point if view
Ixion Parthicus Ἰξίων Παρθίκος: the cypress trees are far too large
ProConsul Agrippa Furius Wassep: yes I would tend to agree
Tribune Asharr: get smaller versions then
Ixion Parthicus Ἰξίων Παρθίκος: they obscure the view on many of the fine estates
ProConsul Agrippa Furius Wassep: that there are quite a few cypress that could be replaced
Tribune Popov: indeed
ProConsul Agrippa Furius Wassep: but to widen the roads?
Ixion Parthicus Ἰξίων Παρθίκος: we live in an urban environment
Ixion Parthicus Ἰξίων Παρθίκος: there were no trees in central Rome
Tribune Asharr: Crucifixes then ?
Ixion Parthicus Ἰξίων Παρθίκος: the proposal is to have them removed
Tribune Lead: thanks you for clarifying the issue Ixion
Tribune Lead: and what we are voting on is that the issue be continued to be followed up
Tribune Asharr: what is the prim differences between trees and statues ?
ProConsul Agrippa Furius Wassep: A LOT.
Tribune Lead: those Tribunes in favour please say yes - those against say no
Tribune Ruggeris: Yes
Tribune Popov: yes
Tribune Lead: Asharr?
Tribune Lead: I will exercise my vote and say Yes
Tribune Lead: motion carried
Tribune Lead: The next issue was in relation to Building Assistance in time of Calamities
Tribune Asharr: yes with both points firstly if the trees are to high then get smaller trees simple and as to chariots and roads who drives them and how many are driving where?
Tribune Lead: please read gentlemen - we are not debating chariots at the moment
Tribune Asharr: I'm willing to have anyone who is regularly driving chariots contact me lets really see out of the what 600 members are driving and having problems
Tribune Ruggeris: Could I just return to the original chariot issue to clarify
Tribune Ruggeris: it wasn't anything about widening roads, in actually
Tribune Lead: not yet - we will deal with that in a minute when the confusion has stopped
Tribune Lead: The next issue was in relation to Building Assistance in time of Calamities
Tribune Ruggeris: ok. Waits
Tribune Lead: This was put to the Senate early in the piece but nothing has transpired .
Tribune Lead: is it your wish that we continue with this proposal?
Senator Janu Shimada Vindelici: I've not seen it, Tribune
Tribune Lead: Someone is here actually moved it and it was carried by the Assembly
Tribune Lead: if there are no comments I put it to the Tribunes do you want this matter continued?
Tribune Ruggeris: This was an item proconsul, then Tribune, Agrippa proposed regarding Pompeii, but Pompeii is now complete, and is therefore no longer relevant.
Tribune Ruggeris: I believe this should now be dropped.
Tribune Popov: /me nods
ProConsul Agrippa Furius Wassep: Agreed.
Tribune Lead: are Tribunes of the same opine as Ruggeris?
Tribune Lead: please say yes or no
Tribune Popov: yes, very much so; I was going to say the same indeed
Tribune Ruggeris: Yes
Tribune Popov: yes
Tribune Lead: Asharr
Tribune Lead: a yes or a no please
Tribune Asharr: yes
Ptolemy Furius Falco: I know much of the trees, I know much of the chariots, but this is rushed without recognition of hands
Tribune Ruggeris: Im happy to listen to the noble Ptolemy if that's any help
Tribune Lead: your speech must be in relation to the matter at hand which is whether we continue with the proposal about funding for Calamities and I have already called for a vote from the Tribunes
Tribune Lead: do you wish to vote for or against the matter Asharr
Tribune Asharr: the calamities I voted yes earlier
Tribune Lead: Well then it is carried
Tribune Asharr: remove it piss it off the schedule
Tribune Lead: we will go to the matter concerning Chariots which was "Proposal to widen the Romanum streets and roads allowing chariots."
Ptolemy Furius Falco: Regarding the roads. The Via Appia was done by me. I have no issue with any changes to the roads. BUT, the Lupercalia proved once again, that any races within Romanum are almost impossible due to lag. Everyone but me just tp'd to the event space because they could not move.
Ptolemy Furius Falco: Furthermore, chariots are worn, on the avatar.
Ptolemy Furius Falco: This means that they can climb cliffs if they want. they can climb stairs
Ptolemy Furius Falco: BUT lag is the ultimate issue with chariots and any kind of racing done. Done.
Tribune Popov: thanks, as I said earlier beside racing, I don't think I have ever seen a chariot going around Romanum
Tribune Popov: so I don't really see what is the point of enlarging roads
Tribune Ruggeris: The issue of chariots was phrased incorrectly somehow and got set in stone, but it was never about widening roads. I tested out the areas that a couple of people had complained about at the time, and it was just that in three or four places the change of level in the road made the chariots stick - specifically the area between the baths and the dock and outside the Bacchus temple where the road goes towards the Via Appia,
Tribune Ruggeris: It was just that in those few places a small invisible wedge needed to be put to help them over the step.
Tribune Ruggeris: As regards the Via Appia, I took a chariot down there recently to test, and although it means going slowly, it is passable, except for one small place, where it is indeed not wide enough - where the entrance to the wooden bridge has two bollards and a guard -
Tribune Ruggeris: If the noble Ptolemy could find it in his heart to move the bollards apart a little and move the guard aside I believe that would also be no problem. Little matters really, no big drama, done.
Ptolemy Furius Falco: "Sticks" are also caused by the sim crossing which would run the risk of sending them flying off. The bollards and anything else can be moved without issue on the Via. I wold also love to say something about those cypress trees, which is an enormous issue with me.
Ptolemy Furius Falco: I thank the honorable tribune. The trees are enormously primmed. ENORMOUSLY. they were the wrong trees to use, when made huge.
Ptolemy Furius Falco: Examples of this are over by the temple of Neptune. 97 prims for 11 trees
Tribune Markus Parthicus-Vindelici: if there are no more important themes then trees or roads...
Ptolemy Furius Falco: They can ALL be easily, EASILY replaced by ONE prim trees which can be huge.
Ptolemy Furius Falco: This is the main issue I think with lag in Romanum
Ptolemy Furius Falco: It is MASSIVELY over primmed. You must MUST have prim leftover, especially here.
Ptolemy Furius Falco: again, all the trees can be replaced, very easily. done
Tribune Lead: Tribunes ready to vote on whether we continue with this matter or not (I assume that local arrangements can be made)
Tribune Ruggeris: Sorry to use up Time, Ras, but could you be specific upon what we are voting?
Tribune Lead: All tribunes in favour of continuing with the proposal re roads say Yes - those not say no
Tribune Popov: No
Tribune Ruggeris: No
Tribune Asharr: No
Tribune Asharr: Tribune Markus?
Tribune Lead: the No's have it - we will not push that matter any more
Tribune Asharr: Ras?
Tribune Lead: (I should have said I vote no)
Tribune Lead: but Tribunes can chose whether to vote or not